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Re: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreLogo localization


Hi,


Sorry to late,

I tried Asian Language (actually Japanese), and confirmed it works
well with Western Language [None] and Asian Language "Standard -
Japanese".

I'm little busy now so I can't test whole things but selectable
keywords such as "右|右に曲がる|right|turnright|rt" (every words
means "turn right") is translated to "右" by magic icon.

You might not be able to read Japanese but I wrote a small blog
article about this:

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/naruoga/20130304/1362399488

I hope this report helps you.


Regards,


2013/2/25 Németh László <nemeth@numbertext.org>:
> Hi,
>
> LibreLogo in 4.0.1 will support Asian and CTL languages, depending
> from the language of the user interface, and (Western, Asian, CTL)
> languages of the document. You have to change the Western language of
> the document/paragraph to [None], if the user interface of LibreOffice
> is in this Western language, for example, to test Japanese Logo
> commands in LibreOffice with English UI. (See
> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61376, where I have
> attached a simple Japanese test file with these language settings.)
>
> Especially CTL and Asian languages may have special problems or
> requirements, so, please, inform me about them.
> By the way, here is an interesting article about the importance of
> native language programming, thanks to Kim Bastin for the link:
>
> http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2013/02/arabic-programming-language.html
>
> Best regards,
> László
>
> 2013/1/14 Németh László <nemeth.lacko@gmail.com>:
>> Hi Naruhiko,
>>
>> It seems, the main problem is the western based language detection. I'm
>> afraid, there is no method to detect the direction of the translation here.
>> We can detect the language of the LibreOffice installation, and use
>> Japanese. I will test it with RC1, and report the result.
>> Many thanks for your mail.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> László
>>
>> 2013/1/14 Naruhiko Ogasawara <naruoga@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm very sorry that I had misunderstood about "magic" icon feature of
>>> LibreLogo.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Dear Németh László,
>>>
>>> Please remove "ja" in your LibreLogo.py if you have already added.
>>>
>>> Now we, Japanese community decided we'll postpone to support LibreLogo
>>> "magic" icon translation feature.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Details:
>>>
>>> We, Japanese community has two problem:
>>>
>>> Problem 1: Which is primary: English or Japanese? (maybe Japanese)
>>> Problem 2: How we can select document language is Japanese?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The help [1] tell us:
>>>
>>> "It expands and upper case Logo commands in the Writer document. Change
>>> the
>>> language of the document (Tools » Options » Language Settings » Languages
>>> » Western) and click on this icon to translate the Logo program to the
>>> selected
>>> language."
>>>
>>>
>>> * Problem 1 *
>>>
>>> My big misunderstanding is translation direction: I thought this button
>>> let
>>> local-language command or short aliases TO English, primary language.
>>> But it's not correct.
>>>
>>> Please let me confirm, if we have:
>>>
>>> FORWARD=すすむ|forward|fd
>>>
>>> and the document language is Japanese, all of following Logo code:
>>>
>>> すすむ 10
>>> forward 10
>>> fd 10
>>>
>>> should be changed:
>>>
>>> すすむ 10
>>> すすむ 10
>>> すすむ 10
>>>
>>> In the other words, the first word should be chosen. Correct?
>>> It means Japanese command is primary, and others are alias.
>>>
>>>
>>> If so, according to difference of syntax of English and Japanese,
>>> it's very hard to use Logo in Japanese only word-by-word translation.
>>>
>>> Small example; operator NOT is prefix, but in Japanese, directly
>>> translated word "ではない" is postfix (a > 10 ではない). That's
>>> why we have to choose to translate NOT very declarative words like
>>> "the following expression is not correct."
>>>
>>> It's deep problem, not only the translation issue, that's why
>>> we want to postpone to apply "magic" icon feature for Japanese.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, what caused if we'll use below?
>>>
>>> FORWARD=forward|すすむ|fd
>>>
>>> If the line means "forward" is a primary ("magic" icon changes
>>> "すすむ" to FORWARD), our problem will be small.
>>> Because young flexible brain can easily accept English command
>>> if they have good entrypoints, Japanese localization might be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Problem 2:
>>>
>>> It's not so serious. Just a question.
>>>
>>> As help [1] says, LibreLogo choose their language to see "western,"
>>> but, you might know, some languages (Japanese also) is in "Asian"
>>> or "CTL."
>>> How LibreLogo knows our document is in Japanese?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ja/libo_help/swriter/librelogo.po/translate/#unit=33620860
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to spend long time to read my long mail.
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Naruhiko Ogasawara (naruoga@gmail.com)
>>
>>
>
> 2013/1/14 Németh László <nemeth.lacko@gmail.com>:
>> Hi Naruhiko,
>>
>> It seems, the main problem is the western based language detection. I'm
>> afraid, there is no method to detect the direction of the translation here.
>> We can detect the language of the LibreOffice installation, and use
>> Japanese. I will test it with RC1, and report the result.
>> Many thanks for your mail.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> László
>>
>> 2013/1/14 Naruhiko Ogasawara <naruoga@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm very sorry that I had misunderstood about "magic" icon feature of
>>> LibreLogo.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Dear Németh László,
>>>
>>> Please remove "ja" in your LibreLogo.py if you have already added.
>>>
>>> Now we, Japanese community decided we'll postpone to support LibreLogo
>>> "magic" icon translation feature.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>> Details:
>>>
>>> We, Japanese community has two problem:
>>>
>>> Problem 1: Which is primary: English or Japanese? (maybe Japanese)
>>> Problem 2: How we can select document language is Japanese?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The help [1] tell us:
>>>
>>> "It expands and upper case Logo commands in the Writer document. Change
>>> the
>>> language of the document (Tools » Options » Language Settings » Languages
>>> » Western) and click on this icon to translate the Logo program to the
>>> selected
>>> language."
>>>
>>>
>>> * Problem 1 *
>>>
>>> My big misunderstanding is translation direction: I thought this button
>>> let
>>> local-language command or short aliases TO English, primary language.
>>> But it's not correct.
>>>
>>> Please let me confirm, if we have:
>>>
>>> FORWARD=すすむ|forward|fd
>>>
>>> and the document language is Japanese, all of following Logo code:
>>>
>>> すすむ 10
>>> forward 10
>>> fd 10
>>>
>>> should be changed:
>>>
>>> すすむ 10
>>> すすむ 10
>>> すすむ 10
>>>
>>> In the other words, the first word should be chosen. Correct?
>>> It means Japanese command is primary, and others are alias.
>>>
>>>
>>> If so, according to difference of syntax of English and Japanese,
>>> it's very hard to use Logo in Japanese only word-by-word translation.
>>>
>>> Small example; operator NOT is prefix, but in Japanese, directly
>>> translated word "ではない" is postfix (a > 10 ではない). That's
>>> why we have to choose to translate NOT very declarative words like
>>> "the following expression is not correct."
>>>
>>> It's deep problem, not only the translation issue, that's why
>>> we want to postpone to apply "magic" icon feature for Japanese.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, what caused if we'll use below?
>>>
>>> FORWARD=forward|すすむ|fd
>>>
>>> If the line means "forward" is a primary ("magic" icon changes
>>> "すすむ" to FORWARD), our problem will be small.
>>> Because young flexible brain can easily accept English command
>>> if they have good entrypoints, Japanese localization might be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Problem 2:
>>>
>>> It's not so serious. Just a question.
>>>
>>> As help [1] says, LibreLogo choose their language to see "western,"
>>> but, you might know, some languages (Japanese also) is in "Asian"
>>> or "CTL."
>>> How LibreLogo knows our document is in Japanese?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ja/libo_help/swriter/librelogo.po/translate/#unit=33620860
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to spend long time to read my long mail.
>>> Thanks,
>>> --
>>> Naruhiko Ogasawara (naruoga@gmail.com)
>>
>>
>
> --
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--
Naruhiko Ogasawara (naruoga@gmail.com)

--
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References:
[libreoffice-l10n] LibreLogo localizationAndras Timar <timar74@gmail.com>
Fwd: [libreoffice-l10n] LibreLogo localizationNémeth László <nemeth@numbertext.org>
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