Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Chapter 2 of Base Guide progress

[Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk>]

Hi :)
+1
I agree with you and Dan that we should avoid mentioning Access by name even as a comparison.  It might be necessary sometimes but i think it can be avoided for the most part.  Imo most/all of my last email shouldn't go into documentation.  It was really just to clarify a few things between ourselves because there seemed to be a little confusion somewhere.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Tue, 13/3/12, Lailah <lailahfsf@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Lailah <lailahfsf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Chapter 2 of Base Guide progress
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 13 March, 2012, 12:16


Tom:
            I agree with you but I can't see what is the of mentioning
Access. I mean, we know that Access works in an specific way and Base
work in others, but I don't we have to mention it in the documentation.
I think that saying  is a replacement for others database front-ends is
enough.  No need of mentioning any other name.  And no need of saying
that is ugly and that other is pretty.
We only have to describe our application, that's all.
What do is important is to say is  "this is better because..."  and
describe why is flexible, easy to use, etc.


Is my opinion
Lailah





El lun, 12-03-2012 a las 11:44 +0000, Tom Davies escribió:

> Hi :)
> I find it easier to think of it as front-end vs back-end.  Base is a good gui front-end to make it easier to see and manipulate the data.  The data is held in a back-end.  
> 
> 
> I think we  want to keep the guide as simple as possible.  
> 
> Back-ends might be small and light such as the HSqlDb one or even a spreadsheet  for 'simple' address books and such-like or a back-end might be something hefty such as MariaDb / MySql or Postgresql, possibly even something that is in a web-site and hosted on a web-facing server.  I don't think Access easily allows you that level of scalability.  
> 
> Ideally we would avoid the complexity of the whole back-end vs front-end issue and just deal with Base as if it was like a default Access.  Sadly the default built-in back-end in Base seems to be the main cause of problems whenever people have trouble with Base.  However, also it seems that one of the biggest advantages of Base is that it makes it much more obvious and easier to connect to a wider range of back-ends.  When you try to create a new Base file one of the first questions it asks is "Where is the data?".  
> 
> Hmm, well the version of java can also often be a problem but it's easier to handle on
> the Users List or in forums because more "normal" users are familiar with dealing with java problems.  
> 
> So, i don't envy anyone trying to write or develop documentation or Faqs or anything because it's difficult to know what to aim for.  It seems to be a moving target too.  
> 
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 12/3/12, Mark Stanton <mark@vowleyfarm.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> From: Mark Stanton <mark@vowleyfarm.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Chapter 2 of Base Guide progress
> To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Monday, 12 March, 2012, 8:52
> 
> > Then what purpose does Base serve using HSQLDB as its database
> > engine? Why even write the Base Guide if the whole thing is 
> > going to be changed?
> 
> Because Base can use a wide range of database programs to hold and 
> "dispense" the data is uses, the guide doesn't have to be "about" any 
> of them.
> 
> The job that Base is doing is providing useful interaction with the 
> beast that does the work.  Perhaps it's a bit like being a terminal 
> to a mainframe, but the terminal isn't dumb, and it's also used to 
> manage the mainframe, not just get information into and out of it.
> 
> Because of this management aspect, the guide does need to teach the 
> reader something about design, which of course has been one of the 
> reasons databases aren't such a generally used tool as spreadsheets.  
> I don't mind using HSQLDB commands and requirements as an *example* 
> of that, as long as the ability to use all sorts of backends is 
> really headlined.
> 
> The really good thing about Base is that it provides tools to put 
> that data into stuff the user wants; reports, mailmerged documents, 
> onscreen forms.  That's the stuff that the database engines don't do, 
> because they're (quite rightly) focused on doing the work, not 
> presenting the work.
> 
> As such, Base is, or could be, a much more comprehensive tool than 
> Access, and in fact any current database product on the desktop, of 
> which there is a serious lack these days.  If you want to know, 
> that's why I'm here.  Microsoft are killing one of the best databases 
> around, Visual FoxPro, without any credible product to fill the gap.  
> And to be honest, even that doesn't match up to Writer+mailmerge 
> fields+backend connectivity.  
> 
> Regards
> Mark Stanton
> One small step for mankind...
> 
> 
> 
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