Aw: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: Re: Re: Re: LibreColor-HLC palette

Thank you, Heiko.

Some details may have been lost in translation, so I take the liberty to clarify my position and 
situation.

1) I've been using this office suite since it was called StarOffice, beginning with v. 3.0 Business 
Pack (or whatever it was called back then). I tried others but always returned to StarOffice, 
OpenOffice.org, now LibreOffice.

2) I still think LibreOffice and *especially* LibreOffice with its many improvements and 
enhancements is the best Office Suite out there, at least for my needs. Its style management is 
second to none, and the list of import filters is breathtaking.

3) I've tested a lot of closed and open source Office Suites for use in cross-media workflows, and 
there's only a single one I can recommend, namely LO.

4) freieFarbe e.V. is a non-profit organisation, dedicated to liberate colour from its proprietary 
chains (Pantone, RAL etc.) and to establish truly free colour systems based on open standards like 
CIE L*a*b*.

5) We hoped to create a win-win situation by offering LibreOffice the integration of the HLC 
palette. Since there is a very good physical colour fan available at a low price, which has been 
thoroughly tested in all kinds of workflows, it would help promoting LibreOffice as the office 
suite of choice in many creative departments or for self-employed creatives. The advantage for 
freieFarbe was supposed to be the promotion of its vendor-independent colour standard with a 
tried-and-tested HLC colour palette.

6) I'm not opposed to an extension, but I haven't created one before, and I simply do not have the 
time to get acquainted with all of the necessary details before your 5.3 release. If someone could 
step up and create the OXT file, I'd be grateful for the assistance.

7) If you can find a way to make the HLC colours a part of 5.3, all the better, but the colour 
values need to be protected against inadvertent or intentional modification in the default 
installation. It's OK if users store a local copy and modify it, but the original needs to be the 
same across all platforms, because otherwise it would become useless.

freieFarbe e.V. wants LibreOffice to succeed in the creative space, which also needs an office 
suite. We even promoted it successfully in Switzerland as the better alternative to MS Office. So 
please let us find a way to make LibreOffice the office tool of choice for publishing workflows.

Thanks,
Christoph

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. Dezember 2016 um 10:14 Uhr
> Von: "Heiko Tietze" <tietze.heiko@googlemail.com>
> An: "design@global.libreoffice.org" <design@global.libreoffice.org>
> Betreff: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: Aw: Re: Re: Re: LibreColor-HLC palette
>
> Hi all,
>
> I had a conversation with Christoph Schaefer about the palette thing in the last days. He is not 
> happy with what happened and in particular how the communication was going. I'm translating his 
> last email excluding the exaggerated parts just for information and not to start a lengthy 
> discussion. While in my opinion we improved the color palette handling, the discussion was indeed 
> not really welcoming. That's my responsibility as the initial discussion could have been done out 
> of the bug tracker, for instance. But after all I believe that transparency is paramount for open 
> source. Nevertheless we all should remind to find positive wording when talking to contributors.
>
> Christoph: "If I get you right it's now up to me to create the extension. But that makes it 
> necessary to become familiar with it, especially since palette handling was changed for 5.3. I 
> have no time currently because new Scribus releases are planned. Furthermore I have two book 
> projects on my hands. I canceled a publication in the Swiss 'Publisher' regarding the exemplary 
> handling of color palettes in LibreOffice compared to MS Office since you scrapped it all. 
> Waiting now for the 5.3 release...
> The Free Color e.V aimed to give LibreOffice a treat as the HLC palette fits perfectly into the 
> cross media workflow, which is a perfect argument pro LibO. Even when it's the goal of fC to 
> unleash color from proprietary restrictions.
> Tor Lillqvist's approach was pragmatic and makes sense from my POV. I would have never expected 
> that it results in such a laborious and time-consuming procedure."
>
> And in a follow-up email:
>
> "I still believe that LibO is the best office suite, especially for the publishing.
> What bothers me, as a pragmatist, are the formalism and harping on about principles, also from 
> the usability experts."
>
> Guess his point is clear now.
>
> Cheers,
> Heiko
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Aw: Re:  Re: Re: LibreColor-HLC palette
> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 09:16:56 +0100
> From: "Christoph Schäfer" <christoph-schaefer@gmx.de>
> To: Heiko Tietze <tietze.heiko@googlemail.com>
>
> > Mit der Extension sollte jetzt aber alles deinen Wünschen entsprechen. Oder?
>
> Wenn ich Dich richtig verstanden habe, soll ich die Extension selbst produzieren. Dazu muß ich 
> mich erst einarbeiten, zumal Du ja mitgeteilt hast, daß sich in 5.3 die Behandlung von Paletten 
> grundlegend geändert hat. Ich habe aber momentan keine Zeit dafür, denn Scribus 1.4.7 und 1.5.3 
> stehen vor der Veröffentlichung. Darüber hinaus habe ich noch zwei Buchprojekte am Hals, von 
> denen eines noch vor Weihnachten fertig werden muß. Einen Artikel im Schweizer "Publisher" zum 
> vorbildlichen Umgang von LibreOffice mit Farbpaletten im Vergleich zu MS Office habe ich absagen 
> müssen, weil Ihr anscheinend alles über Bord geworfen habt. Ich warte also bis zur 
> Veröffentlichung von 5.3 ab, wie das aussieht...
>
> Der Verein freieFarbe e.V. war eigentlich der Absicht, dem LibreOffice-Projekt etwas Gutes tun 
> wollen, weil es sich mit der HLC-Palette im Gegensatz zu MS Office perfekt in einen 
> Cross-Media-Workflow einpassen läßt, was eigentlich eines der besten Werbeargumente for LO ist. 
> Auch ist es ein Ziel des Vereins, Farbe von ihren proprietären Fesseln zu befreien.
>
> ...
>
> Tor Lillqvists Ansatz war pragmatisch und aus meiner Sicht sinnvoll, und ich hätte nicht gedacht, 
> daß aus unserem Angebot eine derart umständliche und (für mich) zeitaufwendige Prozedur werden 
> würde.
>
> Schönen Sonntag
> Christoph
>
> ...
> Ich glaube LibreOffice ist das beste Office-Paket, gerade auch fürs Publishing.
> Was mich als Pragmatiker jedoch stört, sind Formalismus und Prinzipenreiterei, auch von seiten 
> der Usability-Experten.
>
>
>
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